180 Lycoming STC

Bruce74C · Post by **Bruce74C** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:45 pm

Who currently holds and is still in business to suppply the STC for a 180hp Lycoming conversion? Does anyone have current contact information for the STC holder(s)?

Thanks,

Bruce

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:59 pm

Harry Dellicker/DelAir
2121 So. Wildcat Way
Porterville,CA 93257
559-784-9440
Don't have an email address or website for DelAir.
There have been other STC's over the years--Avcon/Bush,Doyn,Turner,KWAD,RFB-- for installing the Lycoming O-320,O-340,O-360,IO-360,and even the O-435,but I don't know how many of them (if any) are being marketed these days.
A Lycoming conversion ain't cheap,but I guess it makes a "real airplane" out of the 170,as does the Cont IO-360 or the 220 Franklin. As any old hot-rodder or biker knows, there's no substitute for cubic inches!

Eric

ohanley · Post by **ohanley** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:42 am

Eric

Remember the Pontic 4 banger's Micky Thompson played with?

Back in the 60's Micky Thompson proved there was a substitute for cubic inches.........."CUBIC MONEY"!

I don't think there is an airplane or boat owner who isn't aware of the law of "cubic money".

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:50 pm

Bruce

If I were to convert with a new kit today I would go with DelAir because he has a 200lb Gross Weight increase STC FOR HIS CONVERSION ONLY.

Mine is the older Avcon conversion out of Udall, KS. Buyer beware if you deal with these people.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:11 pm

I was just looking at the Q1/2004 170 News,and noticed that DelAir has an ad in the back. I believe Dellicker is an Assn member.
Ditto Dave's comments re: Avcon/Bush Conversions/Bob & Barbara Williams of Udall Kansas. I don't know of anyone who has had satisfactory dealings with this outfit.

Eric

Maineboy · Post by **Maineboy** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:15 am

I have read this conversion can cost over 30k. Does anyone have a breakdown of money spent on a conversion. Just wondering how much of this is labor, engine cost, prop, accesories etc,. How many hours it takes to convert one?
I fly mostly floats and skis and could use the bigger engine.

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:31 pm

Here's a guess:

STC with mount cowl mod and other parts $6000
Engine field OH outright $15000
Prop and spinner $7500
Misc Governor,vac pump, instruments, etc $3000

Labor depends on how much you can do yourself. I would think that if you had it all done you could sell your old FWF to cover it.

I now have a net of $20k in mine with a fresh engine but I got some good deals and did all the work myself.

Call Harry Dellicker, he's a kick to talk to.

Maineboy · Post by **Maineboy** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:58 am

Thanks for the information, do you have a rough estimate on the hours it takes to complete the job? Thanks

It's kind of a toss up, sell mine and put money with it and buy a C-180 or spend 20-30k on a conversion. Probably in the long run it would be less expensive to keep the 170.

Bruce74C · Post by **Bruce74C** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:15 am

I have made some phone calls to the STC holders and the cost of conversion looks like this:

STC with all bits and pieces: $9,200
Prop & governor: $9,000 (new)
Engine: $26,000 (New Lycoming)

Total: $44,200

The Continental IO-360 is the same overall cost.

Of course finding a used / OH engine and prop is the key to keeping the costs down. Installing a fixed pitch prop helps also.
If I sell my 170A and add $44,000 to the proceeds I still cannot buy a C-180 in as good condition as my 170A. The added operating costs of a C-180 are an issue also. If the STC holders get the 250-300 lb. gross weight increase for the 170 then a souped up 170 will pretty much match a C-180.
Let's hope my engine stays together while I save my pennies.

Bruce

Post by **GAHorn** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:01 am

A fixed pitch prop negates a lot of the advantages of more hp.

A O360 Lycoming doesn't make 180 hp unless it's running at max rpm.
Why spend $35 grand for only a few more hp?
The C145/O300 only makes about 120 hp at takeoff due to the fixed prop.
A variable pitch/constant speed on this C145/O300 would make it a new animal!
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think I could get excited about a 180 Lyc without a constant speed. If I were to favor a fixed pitch prop, I'd probably lean more toward a (potentially 210 hp) Continental IO-360/O-360 with one. (Fords/Chevy's, etc.)

dkalwishky · Post by **dkalwishky** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:18 am

I have been thinking about upgrading my '56 C172 to 180hp via Harry's STC. Here is a message I posted recently on the Cessna Owner's Organization website.

---------------------
What a coincedence. I spoke to Harry at Del-Air a few days ago about this very thing. He has two STC's, one for a fixed pitch prop ($8700) and one for a Constand Speed prop ($9200). Trade-A-Plane has Lycoming O-360-A4M engine for 13.8K to 16.8K but you will need a mechanic to install it, not sure how much that will run. A 172 is a pretty simple plane so lets say 40 hours (which is one week) at $55 per hour is $2200. All that adds up to $28.2K at the high end of the numbers I have listed. Now it may take more than a week to do the swap, I have no idea how long it will take.

Dave

dkalwishky · Post by **dkalwishky** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:21 am

After rereading my post I realzie that I have NOT included a prop. Thats a pretty important piece

Dave

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:15 pm

George wrote:

"A fixed pitch prop negates a lot of the advantages of more hp.
A O360 Lycoming doesn't make 180 hp unless it's running at max rpm...(snip)...I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think I could get excited about a 180 Lyc without a constant speed."

Generally I agree wholeheartedly, however, an exception might be a plane on floats full time with a long seaplane prop set to hit the 2700 static. It'll never get much airspeed in cruise anyway.

I like the Lycoming but then you can't have too much power so it would be fun to try the IO-360 with the constant speed. I guess then I'd have a true XP huh?

Post by **GAHorn** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:56 pm

AND you'd have a smooth-runnin' six-cylinder instead of a 4-banger.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:18 pm

And then there's the 220 Franklin conversion (Of course the Franklin & the Continental can't burn car gas. George,that'd kill the deal for you,I know how much you love that stuff.)
And then there's the O-470 conversion,otherwise known as the Cessna 180. And for that there's the Ponk +50 (O-520) conversion. And then there's the IO-520 conversion,also known as the Cessna 185. Then there's the IO-550 conversion,and the IO-540 conversion........Just goes on & on.
IMHO,the Lycoming O-360 seems the perfect match to the 170 airframe,all things-- cargas compatability,fuel burn,price,horsepower,size,availability,track record,etc-- considered. Or maybe the IO-360 Lycoming if you need a smidge more steam.

Eric