Richard,
I have MillenniumCylinders.I don't have any fancy gauges. Maybe I should? What gauges did you buy and what kind of $ did you spend on them? Did you do this taping just for break in or will you leave some on for general winterization? On the topic of baffles. I was able to get both tops of the pressure box from Levi. He had one and made up the other for me. He also had some inner cylinder pieces I bought and we fabricated or repaired the rest. How is the approval coming? How often do you get to SCH? I may have mentioned to you before I saw a bunch of 195's at Saratoga in summer of 05 if I remember correctly. Mark
Engine break in
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hilltop170
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Mark-
I re-did the entire panel which was mostly original stuff in sad shape. I went with all digital EI gauges (Fuel flow, clock, oil temp/press, volts/amps), Horizon digital tach, and 6-position EI UBG-16 engine monitor. I figured after spending that much on an engine overhaul, a few thousand more to get accurate monitoring might increase the life of the overhaul. Still lots to do to get it 100% but I'll keep working on it.
I really like the EI stuff and they are truely nice people to work with. I have nothing but high regards for the whole company and its products. I bought all the electronics from a local Anchorage shop, Merrill Field Instruments, that gives a modest discount to all customers. Another good bunch of folks who do a good job. Check the Electronics International Inc. website, http://www.buy-ei.com/, for list prices.
I have always installed upgraded monitoring equipment which some consider over-kill. I first had an EGT on my 170 in 1975 that Westach made up with a six-position switch. It was crude but I could see all six EGTs, one at a time on the old analog gauge. I was experimenting with using auto fuel at the time (before the STCs came out) and wanted to see what was happening with EGTs. CHTs are usually only on one cylinder which might not always be the hottest one. Several times over the years I have seen problems on the engine monitors that never became serious because I had them fixed right away. I have the ECI Titan cylinders with the bayonet fitting in the head for CHT probes which works very well.
You don't have to have elaborate monitoring but it IS necessary to have accurate monitoring with whatever you do have. That is why I think it is good practice to replace or at the least check and verify monitoring equipment periodically and always with a new engine overhaul. A new engine can be ruined if you don't see problems when they happen. Same goes for engine baffles and baffle seals, they HAVE to be in good shape or you probably just wasted some of your o/h dollars.
I haven't checked with Levi from Airframes on their progress with baffle approval for the 170A model air box system. They really do nice work. Mine was signed off as owner manufactured parts since I specified exactly what I wanted and made sure their baffles were just like the originals. Levi inspected the baffle installation on my plane with a local DER to get the airbox system approved. It's up to them now, I've done all I can to help them. The new baffles sure work well, all CHTs are close together in the 350F range. Be sure you have ALL of the small inter-cylinder baffles in place as it is easy to miss some of them. Check against the parts manual. Even those little ones will let a lot of air escape if left out and cause hot spots on the engine. Make sure the baffle seals are all good and seal properly for the same reason.
I regularly use duct tape in the winter here in Alaska to control air flow into the air intakes to keep oil temp and CHTs where they are supposed to be. It is not hard to get the feel of how much to use. And I remove it after each flight because the ambient temps are always different, even in Alaska. The tape will leave residue which is hard to get off if it is left on for any length of time. It comes off easy right after shutdown while it is still warm. Let it cool and it sets up like epoxy.
I go to Schenectady (SCH) every year in the fall. Bill Milton of The 195 Factory is based there. I was there at Saratoga in 2005 for the 195 fly-in. There were about 35 C-195s and even a couple of C-170s that attended and are always welcome. The club website, http://www.cessna195.org/, has some pictures of the fly-in under "Club Events". We flew the 195 10,000 miles that summer from Texas, to Alaska, to New York, and back to Texas. The only problem on the whole trip was one cowl screw fell out. Cessna sure made good airplanes back in those days.
I re-did the entire panel which was mostly original stuff in sad shape. I went with all digital EI gauges (Fuel flow, clock, oil temp/press, volts/amps), Horizon digital tach, and 6-position EI UBG-16 engine monitor. I figured after spending that much on an engine overhaul, a few thousand more to get accurate monitoring might increase the life of the overhaul. Still lots to do to get it 100% but I'll keep working on it.
I really like the EI stuff and they are truely nice people to work with. I have nothing but high regards for the whole company and its products. I bought all the electronics from a local Anchorage shop, Merrill Field Instruments, that gives a modest discount to all customers. Another good bunch of folks who do a good job. Check the Electronics International Inc. website, http://www.buy-ei.com/, for list prices.
I have always installed upgraded monitoring equipment which some consider over-kill. I first had an EGT on my 170 in 1975 that Westach made up with a six-position switch. It was crude but I could see all six EGTs, one at a time on the old analog gauge. I was experimenting with using auto fuel at the time (before the STCs came out) and wanted to see what was happening with EGTs. CHTs are usually only on one cylinder which might not always be the hottest one. Several times over the years I have seen problems on the engine monitors that never became serious because I had them fixed right away. I have the ECI Titan cylinders with the bayonet fitting in the head for CHT probes which works very well.
You don't have to have elaborate monitoring but it IS necessary to have accurate monitoring with whatever you do have. That is why I think it is good practice to replace or at the least check and verify monitoring equipment periodically and always with a new engine overhaul. A new engine can be ruined if you don't see problems when they happen. Same goes for engine baffles and baffle seals, they HAVE to be in good shape or you probably just wasted some of your o/h dollars.
I haven't checked with Levi from Airframes on their progress with baffle approval for the 170A model air box system. They really do nice work. Mine was signed off as owner manufactured parts since I specified exactly what I wanted and made sure their baffles were just like the originals. Levi inspected the baffle installation on my plane with a local DER to get the airbox system approved. It's up to them now, I've done all I can to help them. The new baffles sure work well, all CHTs are close together in the 350F range. Be sure you have ALL of the small inter-cylinder baffles in place as it is easy to miss some of them. Check against the parts manual. Even those little ones will let a lot of air escape if left out and cause hot spots on the engine. Make sure the baffle seals are all good and seal properly for the same reason.
I regularly use duct tape in the winter here in Alaska to control air flow into the air intakes to keep oil temp and CHTs where they are supposed to be. It is not hard to get the feel of how much to use. And I remove it after each flight because the ambient temps are always different, even in Alaska. The tape will leave residue which is hard to get off if it is left on for any length of time. It comes off easy right after shutdown while it is still warm. Let it cool and it sets up like epoxy.
I go to Schenectady (SCH) every year in the fall. Bill Milton of The 195 Factory is based there. I was there at Saratoga in 2005 for the 195 fly-in. There were about 35 C-195s and even a couple of C-170s that attended and are always welcome. The club website, http://www.cessna195.org/, has some pictures of the fly-in under "Club Events". We flew the 195 10,000 miles that summer from Texas, to Alaska, to New York, and back to Texas. The only problem on the whole trip was one cowl screw fell out. Cessna sure made good airplanes back in those days.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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Robert Eilers
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hilltop170
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Good eye, Robert!
New vacuum pump failed after 4 hours!
Luckily it was good VFR at the time and I knew where I was.
New vacuum pump failed after 4 hours!
Luckily it was good VFR at the time and I knew where I was.
Last edited by hilltop170 on Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10422
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
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hilltop170
- Posts: 3485
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 6:05 pm
Geez- You guys didn't even mention the EI gauges! That was the reason I posted the picture in the first place, for Mark. Oh well, I should have known sharp-eyed pilots would pick up on the vac pump failure. At least ya'll are keeping your scan up. That's why I like to put a few hours on a new o/h close to home.
The EI gauges were more than a little difficult to install. First the old gauges were 1-5/8" dia instead of 2-1/4". So the holes had to be enlarged, but not too much or the recessed lip would disappear. Then a new support bracket that holds the gauges behind the panel had to be fabricated. The old one was too shallow and just would not work. Then while all that was out, we might as well install new switches, make a new breaker panel, re-wire everything, paint the instrument panel, new cables, etc, etc. Needless to say it took longer than planned. You guys know the story.
Still lots to do, new flight instruments and new radios down the line. How many of you guys still have a 300 Nav-Com that still works? I know, it's not legal to use, but it still will if I need it.
The EI gauges were more than a little difficult to install. First the old gauges were 1-5/8" dia instead of 2-1/4". So the holes had to be enlarged, but not too much or the recessed lip would disappear. Then a new support bracket that holds the gauges behind the panel had to be fabricated. The old one was too shallow and just would not work. Then while all that was out, we might as well install new switches, make a new breaker panel, re-wire everything, paint the instrument panel, new cables, etc, etc. Needless to say it took longer than planned. You guys know the story.
Still lots to do, new flight instruments and new radios down the line. How many of you guys still have a 300 Nav-Com that still works? I know, it's not legal to use, but it still will if I need it.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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170C
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Engine Break IN
Well I sure thought it was a pretty scene & a nice panel to boot, but I missed the two gauges mentioned as being inoperative. However, I did notice the copilot was wearing gloves. Wonder what the outside and inside air temp was?
OLE POKEY
170C
Director:
2012-2018
170C
Director:
2012-2018
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JTS
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hilltop170
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Frank- The new engine was still in it's break-in program at just over 4 hours SMOH and I was watching everything pretty closely. Ina was flying the plane while I was monitoring the RPM and CHTs, monkeying around with programming the EI stuff and trying to figure out why the vacuum went offline. It was 35°F outside but the new C-180 heater system was keeping the inside a toasty 75°F or so. Ina wears gloves anytime she is flying or driving, a girl thing I guess. We were flying south of Anchorage on the Kenai Peninsula thru the Kenai Mountains on our way to Seward. Following the road, just in case. Winter flying in Alaska in that cold, dense, smooth air is the best.
The panel is still a work-in-progress. The flight instruments have been in the panel since 1978 when I removed the old panel and built the upper instrument panel and had those radios installed as a college graduation present to myself so I could get my instrument rating in the 170. All that stuff needs to be updated now but it all still works when there's vacuum.
Jody-
We were IFR (I Follow Roads- in the winter, in Alaska, with a new engine) but luckily we weren't IMC, especially since I didn't have the Garmin 296 with me for instrument panel back-up. The electric turn coordinator works, it was just turned off at the time. Good spotting, the other eagle-eyes missed that. Those little digital cameras take amazingly sharp pictures.
Typical Alaska December day in the mountains
Happiness is a warm 170
The panel is still a work-in-progress. The flight instruments have been in the panel since 1978 when I removed the old panel and built the upper instrument panel and had those radios installed as a college graduation present to myself so I could get my instrument rating in the 170. All that stuff needs to be updated now but it all still works when there's vacuum.
Jody-
We were IFR (I Follow Roads- in the winter, in Alaska, with a new engine) but luckily we weren't IMC, especially since I didn't have the Garmin 296 with me for instrument panel back-up. The electric turn coordinator works, it was just turned off at the time. Good spotting, the other eagle-eyes missed that. Those little digital cameras take amazingly sharp pictures.
Typical Alaska December day in the mountains
Happiness is a warm 170
Last edited by hilltop170 on Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10422
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Richardhilltop170 wrote:Frank- It was 35F outside but the new C-180 heater system was keeping the inside a toasty 75F or so.
Could you comment further, perhaps in another thread more appropriately titled, about your "new c-180 heater". Lots of us would like to improve our heat systems
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
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GAHorn
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Don't let the RAF boys hear you say that!hilltop170 wrote:... Ina wears gloves anytime she is flying or driving, a girl thing I guess...
(But their gloves are white...so they can see hand signals in formation or in case of lost-comm.)
Tell us about your compass correction card.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
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170C
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Engine Break In
Boy, that photo of a typical winter day in the Alaskan Mountains makes me shiver and its only down to the lower 30's here in North Central Texas. I don't think my heater would be sufficient in Alaskan Winters!
Good self photo also.
Good self photo also.
OLE POKEY
170C
Director:
2012-2018
170C
Director:
2012-2018
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Mark Harwood
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Richard, Great pictures and info! Sure would love to have all those guages!! Maybe someday! All my baffles and seals have been brought up to snuff. I talked to engine builder and he was happy with 45 psi oil pressure and "mid green" oil temps for break in. looks like I am on the right track. Thanks again! Mark
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hilltop170
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Compass correction card? Uh, it must have fell off. Yeah, that's the story. If I remember correctly it went something like, For N steer N, for S steer S, etc.
Actually after the new electronic gear is in it will have to be re-done. I bet it's going to be something like For N steer N, for S steer S, etc
Mark- Good luck with the break-in. Tightening up the baffles is something a lot of guys forget to do and it costs them in the long run.
I am considering adding baffle plates in front of #5 and #6 cylinders as they consistently run 240-250F when #1 thru #4 run 320-330F. I did it on my C-180 and it evened CHTs out to within 20-40F on all cylinders. Anyone else done this? Mid 1960's O-300 powered C-172s had them.
Bruce- I'll take a few pictures of the C-180 heater sysem and post them in a new thread. It was really easy to install and get approved.
Actually after the new electronic gear is in it will have to be re-done. I bet it's going to be something like For N steer N, for S steer S, etc
Mark- Good luck with the break-in. Tightening up the baffles is something a lot of guys forget to do and it costs them in the long run.
I am considering adding baffle plates in front of #5 and #6 cylinders as they consistently run 240-250F when #1 thru #4 run 320-330F. I did it on my C-180 and it evened CHTs out to within 20-40F on all cylinders. Anyone else done this? Mid 1960's O-300 powered C-172s had them.
Bruce- I'll take a few pictures of the C-180 heater sysem and post them in a new thread. It was really easy to install and get approved.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
Cessna® is a registered trademark of Textron Aviation, Inc. The International Cessna® 170 Association is an independent owners/operators association dedicated to C170 aircraft and early O-300-powered C172s. We are not affiliated with Cessna® or Textron Aviation, Inc. in any way.